untitled
Date: Tue, 14 Jun 2005 14:57:40 -0400
From: Mike Ryder
Subject: Re: Thomas Paine
To: [Family member A]
Cc: Mike Ryder <mike@mryder.com>, [Family member B]
I know I am overdue to reply to this email and would like to discuss
Pain in depth. Unfortunately it has been several years since I
have read it and do not have the bandwidth to reread it just yet. I
will get to it soon though.
I will address what I can of your email on this basis.
Paine does not single out the Catholic church, in fact he is addressing
all national institutions of churches. Quote from the intro "All
national institutions of churches, whether Jewish, Christian, or
Turkish, appear to me no other than human inventions set up to terrify
and enslave mankind, and monopolize power and profit."
As I recall his tone is certainly sarcastic and contemptuous. He was
extremely outspoken in his time. Even today his comments would be
radical.
a. Paine is taking issue with the meaning and usage of the terms
prophet and prophesy. An etymological study would be useful here - any
takers? I did read Isiah 53 & 52. I confess that I really
could make very little sense of it at all. I can see that one can
discern any manner of meaning from it.
b. Free choice? Just not the freedom to act on it without
irrational consequences (unless damning all life is a reasonable
reaction.
c. I think you are misstating Paine's argument. He is
talking about the power struggle between God and Satan. His point
is that it is absurd for an almighty god to feel the necessity to take
the form of a man on a cross in order to save His creation.
Placing Satan there would have shown God to be the more powerful.
Of course this would have left religion without sacrifice and guilt,
which would have been a major loss.
d. I thought the bible said "shall not die, but have eternal
life"? Future events are conjecture.
e. Paine appears to disagree with you on what constitutes
evidence, as do I.
f. I take issue with your (supposed) witticism "Pain[,] sorry
Paine". It's petty and detracts from any rational discourse you
wish to undertake. I don't know what Paine remembers, but I do
know that he views the bible as a tool of organised religion which he
rejects. He also refers to himself as a theist (not as an
atheist).
Mike
bravenet.com